Penalty Charge Notices

[maf91]

First rule of thumb with these losers...

MAKE NO CONTACT WHATSOEVER FROM DAY 1.

And eventually they give up.

Please don't post comments like that UNLESS you are 100% certain the PCN is infact an "invoice" from a private parking company (PPC). Council PCN's must always be dealt with fast- failure to appeal or pay leads to an NTO, which then leads to an OfR and ballifs (in England).

If this is a council ticket then I fear you will need a technicality to get off on this one... getting change is not generally accepted as an appeal, as really your meant to arrive to park already prepared.

Who ecactly issued the ticket?

[chelseaalan22]

Hi from a newbee,
Yes you are correct,Private cowboys tickets are not enforcable.They rely on the threat of action for you to respond and of course once you do they have your details,Then they will start with threats of legal action nad debt collectors in the hope that most people will just pay up.This will only get worse when the new law comes in.

I hope this helps.

[maf91]

Hi from a newbee,
Yes you are correct,Private cowboys tickets are not enforcable.They rely on the threat of action for you to respond and of course once you do they have your details,Then they will start with threats of legal action nad debt collectors in the hope that most people will just pay up.This will only get worse when the new law comes in.

I hope this helps.

Aye its all based on contract law. Complicated stuff! Don't respond to them in any way- let them contact you (costs them ?2.50 to buy your details from the DVLA) and then continue to ignore from there.
The new anti-clamping laws already exist in Scotland (its been classed as extortion up here for a long time!), and things aren't too bad up here. But the stance will still remain to be IGNORE IGNORE IGNORE. Unless you get a court summons (unlikely but it happens) then don't respond. If your unlucky to get challanged in court its easy anyway.. How can they prove their losses have amounted to ?90 or whatever over you being in that parking space. Simple answer is likely to be they can't prove it as its not the case. Furthermore, they must challange the actual driver, not the owner as is the case with PCN's. Lots of defences, and anyone summonsed to court will have no defence issues.

I've had a few and no issues with courts. I'm tryin to get more but they don't like me 

[rdw]

Excellent thread.
RDW

[john boy]

so the 1 hour stay at tesco i just noticed they have a new sign about it in lanark so if i stay 2 hours they cant really do anything ?

[maf91]

so the 1 hour stay at tesco i just noticed they have a new sign about it in lanark so if i stay 2 hours they cant really do anything ?

Well they'll try and send you a "ticket". But its unenforcable. Just ignore, and after 5 or 6 letters they take the hint and fuck off. They need to be able to prove the driver.. who makes the civil contract as they enter and render the services of the car park. And PPC's have no legal standing to demand driver details (ie S172 requests), and so any demands for the drivers details should also be... ignored.

Were they to manage to find out the driver, they would then have to prove the contract was entered into- ie the signage was sufficient, which more often that not, its very insufficient!

Thennn the amounts they claim have to be losses.. ie cannot be punative

Just don't go ripping the arse out it by picking them up every day/week from the same car park... some judges don't like that, as shown by the Mcdonalds Finneston case where the guy picked up 27 invoices from the ANPR ParkingEye scheme in place there... he didn't argue well in court, the judge refused to understand the PPC model, and he had to pay a whopping amount to the shysters.

And btw ignore ignore ignore, and theres a one in a million chance they would even consider trying it on in court... and pretty much nae chance of them winning provided you put forward simple arguments.

[maf91]

Just had to have a wee laugh to myself here... latest 'ticket' I've got here says I may be being taken to county court  good luck with that, idiots. Do I look like I stay in a country with county courts?!

[SILVER]

Got one in Lidl a year or so again - Wifes reg taken by on site parking camera on entry /exit but we knew nothing about it until we received a very official " ticket " a few days later.

I kicked up a stink with Lidl /the parking operator as:-

1.She had been shopping in the store whilst parked

2. The notice pointing out the NEW time limitation on parking was not prominently displayedf and in any case was too small to be obvious.

3.In any case she was only a matter of a few minutes ove the newly ,poorly notified, time limit.

Result ....... Lidl eventually cancelled the charge with the enforcment company as the enforcment company should not have issued ticket in the first place as they  (Lidl) adopt a 15 minute tolerance policy.

Before I retired I also avoided paying several l ,local authority,Legally enforcable tickets on the grounds that I was visiting a local client on business so I was entitled to park in their "Resident Only" bays,on one ocassion having to get written confirmation of my visit and purpose from the client concerned.

Same with the Central London Congestion charge- If you dont pay Boris`s boys have you bang to rights , but I avoided one such charge when I was forced into the zone by road works/closure which I sucessfully, after a scrap, got the charge dropped.

My advice ...........If you dont believe you are at fault fight back hard and go for the throat!

It can be bloody and will consume time but why should we part with our hard earned when we are not in the wrong.

[Jamie]

How does the Disabled Persons Parking (Scotland) Act 2009 affect things? Does this law apply to private car parks (such as Asda, Tesco, NCP, etc.)? Can you be penalised for parking in a disabled bay in an Asda car park? Does it apply to marked disabled parking bays on-street with no sign adjacent to them? Can you be penalised for parking in a street bay which is painted with a disabled marking on the street, but which has no sign beside it?

I'm confused! Searching online hasn't made things any clearer. It's hard to find out what the law is!!!

[The Wrinkly Ninja]

Probably a grey area and Scotland is a law unto itself.

Supermarket car parks are however treated as if they are part of the public highway, so an excuse of 90mph round Tescos being on private land won't wash.

My opinion is that it's irrelevant anyway and the only people who should be parking in marked disabled bays MUST show the Blue Badge - otherwise they should be shot ....... in front of their families if possible.

[argoose]

Or doused in fuel from their own tank and set alight, 

[mcjordi]

the blue badge thing doesnt apply in private car parks ie asda/tesco etc but yeah if not disabled then dont park there..

[Jamie]

Yep, I agree with you all. Thanks for clarifying the law regarding car parks. I've never parked in one, so I'm safe from your retribution.

My question was more geared towards street parking. I'd like to be clear on what the law is. Near my house there are street-painted disabled bays, but sometimes there are bays right beside them with disabled markings made of white bricks in the red brick of the street surface. Where does the law stand on these spaces if there are no signs bsdie them? Bear in mind also that the 2009 act was brought in to address disabled parking issues, and Glasgow City Coucil was supposed to audit all city disabled bays and enforce them more rigidly. I think this included putting signs up beside all registered spaces. Does this mean no sign, no disabled space, no penalty? maf91 seems to be pretty clued up on Scottish law.

[The Wrinkly Ninja]

If he isn't, he ought to be shot in front of his family. 

Only joking, Mark. 

[maf91]

Yep, I agree with you all. Thanks for clarifying the law regarding car parks. I've never parked in one, so I'm safe from your retribution.

My question was more geared towards street parking. I'd like to be clear on what the law is. Near my house there are street-painted disabled bays, but sometimes there are bays right beside them with disabled markings made of white bricks in the red brick of the street surface. Where does the law stand on these spaces if there are no signs bsdie them? Bear in mind also that the 2009 act was brought in to address disabled parking issues, and Glasgow City Coucil was supposed to audit all city disabled bays and enforce them more rigidly. I think this included putting signs up beside all registered spaces. Does this mean no sign, no disabled space, no penalty? maf91 seems to be pretty clued up on Scottish law.

In theory, all these 'residential' on-street disabled bays are now enforcable. If you stay in Glasgow (or Edinburgh, Dundee, Aberdeen or South Lanarkshire) area, parking is decriminalised, meaning that if you get a Penalty Charge Notice for one then you may be able to appeal it (subject to there being grounds for appeal like faded markings, lack of signs). However I'd avoid them, as appealing a ticket is becoming a royal pain in the arse. And taking the ticket to adjudication isn't as effective as it used to be either.

If its in another area where the on-street parking is not run by council, I'd never park in a disabled bay on the street. Your less likely to get a ticket (as its police and not dedicated council wardens who do you) however if you do get a ticket you will be paying it, as signage requirements are very lax in areas not in decriminalised areas, and to appeal a police FPN means a trip (or two...) to court.

Other than that, any private car parks are still the same- blue badges were not created for private land and therefore have no juristriction there. Ignoring any private tickets is still a safe option, although the new Securities Acts legislation soon coming into force could see a little surge in the number of PPC's taking people to court and trying it on, so just be careful the next few months till we see how that legislation affects us